Hello class:
As we discussed yesterday, school shootings are a pertinent topic of discussion these days. Many options have been proposed in terms of trying to mitigate / prepare for a critical incident such as a shooter in a college (similar to Virginia Tech.). Please discuss the following:
Would sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
Metal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? why? why Not?
Please provide your response and respond to two of your classmates.
thank you
Dr. Kalam
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ReplyDeleteWould sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
ReplyDeleteIt is dangerous to have professors carry guns on college campuses. There is no evidence that a professor carrying a weapon would deter crime. I believe that it is a more effective way of controlling firearms on campus without giving sanction to the use of guns. However, I do agree that with placing safer and secure entry on campus would be more beneficial.
Metal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? Why? Why Not?
ReplyDeleteWe are living in a society where violent is increasingly growing. Metal detectors are a great way to determine if someone is hiding a weapon. The metal detectors are there to supposedly protect the public, but shooting are still happening in schools and other facilities. I clearly believe that we need to educate children about the danger of guns.
I do not support the idea of professors carrying guns in the classroom. A series of events can lead up to the firearm being discharged because it is "readily available". I can foresee a gun being taken away from the professor and the perpetrator using it against him. I can also see an upset professor using it against a student, etc. etc.
ReplyDeleteAlthough unfortunate, I do feel as to every school in the U.S needs to have metal detectors in place. I wouldn't even mind for there to be random dog searches held in classrooms and around campus. I know the question is related to "school shootings" but if we look at the big picture, we also have to worry about terrorists with bombs, which currently have easy access to most schools.
Hello Bonnie:
ReplyDeleteWe, the professors should be allowed to protect ourselves and our students. If we trained them and they were instructed to use the weapons only when the situation demanded it, would that not be ok. would a gun in the hands of the professor at Virginia Tech led to a better outcome?
Hello Mike: You saind, "I can foresee a gun being taken away from the professor and the perpetrator using it against him. I can also see an upset professor using it against a student, etc. etc".
ReplyDeleteA gun could be taken away from a police officer, and they still carry them. How about training for the professor. I would not want to believe a professor woul dget upset at students...and then shoot them? You must be kidding?
Dr. Kalam
I do not think that it is good idea for professors to carry guns on college campuses. The role of a professor is to teach; he or she is generally not trained to carry a gun and carry out police duties.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to metal detectors, I do not agree that they should be implemented in an open college like MDC. The main reason for this is that I would not like for our open college to be changed into a high security environment in which everyone on campus cannot walk freely without constantly being questioned.
I agree with respect to what Mike said to professors not carrying guns in college environments; but with respect to metal detectors in every school (including colleges and universities), I feel that the few shootings in our colleges do not warrant that we limit our current freedoms.
ReplyDeleteIt is not that I am against more security in our colleges, but I believe that in order to implement more security, not only is our tuition going to have to increase (in order to pay for these measures), but the way we are used to moving freely from one building to another is going to change and we are going to have similar long waits, like at the airports (although the airports are a different ballgame).
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with Alan, Mike and Bonnie. Professors should not be allowed to carry a gun on a regular school campus or college campus.
ReplyDeleteI dont agree with professors carrying a gun on school campus whether their properly trained or not, because that would only cause more problem. I definetely don't thinh that's reasonable.
Let's go back to the scenerios examples Dr. Kalam used in class yesterday. Which is more likely to happen (1)A crazy individual walks into our classroom with an uzi and starts shooting (2)someone's purse bieng snatch from them inside of the campus cafeteria (3) a vehicle being stolen from the campus parking lot, of course # 3is more likely to happen and #1, a person walking into the classroom with an uzi and start shooting is least likely to happen. Carrying a conceale3d weapon on campus would only create chaos. Anything can happen and perhaps the proffessor might even forget his/her weapon in the classroom, or it might accidentally go off.
If professors carry guns to work, the students will do same..now we have more problem
Dr. Kalam, professors are just like anyone else in our society, most of them are good people,but every now and then we have a case of an individual that does not adjust or can no longer adjust to societies norms. Having a gun in the college environment is a temptation for those not "fit" (whether they be students, visitors, professors or other school employees). I understand that anyone can carry a gun to college (maybe one of the reasons why some agree with the metal detectors), but the fact that there is always going to be one in every classroom increases the probability of a "misfit" of getting access to a stolen gun in college.
ReplyDeleteIf you have seen the movie "Dangerous Minds" then you would understand why it is so absurd to place and armed teacher inside a class room. What is it going to be: Behave or I shout! For those of you who did not see the movie it‘s a true-life drama based on 'My Posse Don't Do Homework,' a novel by educator LouAnne Johnson depicting the struggle of an English teacher to get a class of tough-as-nails kids to trust her and to believe in themselves and to change their academic outcome.
ReplyDeleteTeachers in reality should stick to educating and molding minds.They should be able to create an atmosphere of trust conducive to a favorable learning environment. A teacher carrying a weapon inside a classroom will totally distroy teacher-student relationship. I have a 45, who wants to know about the French Revolution...
Metal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? why? why Not?
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to metal detectors I feel about this in the following ways:
1. I support metal detectors when it comes to Elemtary through High schools, because there should monitor young people from bringing weapons on to schools. Coming from High school where metal detectors was used I can says that you do feel a bit safer and it does makes for a better learning experience inside the school. On the other had it does mean that violence with weapons stop at the school it just moved it just moved it out to the street where more people are going to be effected.
2. I do not support metal detectors when if comes to Higher Educational Institutions, because you are not letting people have the option to cary around things that can be used to defend themselfs incase they are attacked. The way that Colleges/Universities are desinged makes people an easy target to be attacked, and people should be able to be defend themself. Maybe when they they design future learning instutions they school make them in a way if there an incident they have a not down of the whole location.
What we all need to remember is that metal detectors just puts a band to the problem of violence in the school. Another thing to keep in mind is that are we ready to have metal detectors every where we go? We are becoming country when we have to not just alone on people with weapons, but also on terrorist with bombs.
Dr. Kalam, if you were to show up to class with a weapon, that would definetly change the serene atmosphere of your class. I dont think I would want to be at the mercy of a teacher locked inside a room where I am supposed to fill my mind with knowledge fearing for my life. Besides, the teacher carrying the gun will not have the same dedication to his teaching duties. It will be like: "you want to learn, fine; if you don't want to, do not mess with my classroom- I have a weapon and I won't hesitate to use it".
ReplyDeleteInstead of weapons, there are other skills like "Verbal Judo" that an educator should possess to diffuse potentially dangerous situation. I would go as far as to mandate that every teacher receive trainig in Crisis Hostage Negotiations.
I support that all schools should have metal detectors, understanding implementing metal detectors would not make the schools any safer or will it be effective, but it can serve as a risk reduction tool.
ReplyDeleteMetal detectors can not and will not provide a guarantee, there's no way possible to prevent such action from occurring, but we can take precautions. No matter what strategy used or practiced, its not 100% guaranteed.
You still have other entrances and exit points, how do we secure them to prevent unauthorized entry. How do we secure the windows? There are other routes and options one can take.
The other problem is how do you screen so many students, hundreds if not thousands without disturbing the learning environment. Screening thousands of students is very time consuming.
Metal detectors are as only effective as the person who's monitoring the equipment
Metal detectors are here to stay. However they create a false sense of security leading one to believe that everyone inside a particular premise has been searched and is free of potential weapon. The determined individual will circumvent all securty measures to bring in a weapon- there lies the real problem. We can plan a prep for any potential threat but the vilain on a mission to kill will find a way to carry out his wicked deed.-- pray you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time.
ReplyDeleteHi Bonnie, I agree with you about the metal detectors, and we should educate children about guns. Education is a great way make sure the our youth do fall prey for the use of guns/weapons for violence. What we need to remember is that yes we are educating some, but there are so many that are so far past learning what is wrong from right that it is just a matter of time before injure or kill someone. The thought of prison does not stop these individual from doing crime, it just becomes their routine do the crime and do some time.
ReplyDeleteI just feel that once an individual uses a gun/weapon for a crime they are also willing to kill the some one, and they should be given the death penalty to.
Hi Rudyjl: I agree with you once some on their mission to carry out their deed no one is going to stop them. What need to make sure that is no chance for these people to does acts of violence, maybe we should be like Israel kill everyone that tries to carry out any acts of aggresion that may kill one or may people.
ReplyDeleteWith respect to Rudy's comment on the serene atmosphere, I do not totally agree with that comment. Some of the professors that I have are police officers and they come to class with their gun. Also, there are some students that are also in the same situation and they carry their gun to class. I really do not feel uncomfortable with the fact that they have a gun in class. I guess that the main reason that I do not feel uncomfortable with this is that they are police officers. Having professors that are not police officers, carrying their gun to class would be a different situation and most likely it would make me uneasy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Farah, Metal Detector will not work for an open stucture like the North Campus. There are too many entries and exits points and the cost associated with placing such devices on site will be astronomical.
ReplyDeleteDr. Kalam,
ReplyDeleteI said i agree all schools should implement metal detectors, but implementing metal detectors into a school facility, isn't that violating the students privacy? Because come to think of it, the fourth amendment grants us, "we the people", the right to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects against all unreasonable searches and seizures, doen't that apply to students as well?
If metal detectors are being used randomly, than I would consider that to be minimally intrusive and reasonable under circumstances, but should be used upon reasonable suspicion.
Hi Farah: I agree with you we should take precaution to make our schools safer, and metal detectors can play part of the strategy. As far as entrances windows/doors that adds to the security problems, because they will still just find another way in. I just think that the design of the structure plays a big part in security, maybe schools should be designed in a way where there is a main entrance/exit with no windows in the first level, it could make it easier from the monitoring point of view.
ReplyDeleteAllan, a police officer/teacher is expected to carry his or her weapon to class because of their duty as law enforcement personnel. You are a Police Officer 24/7; that fact in itself is a deterrent for a potential trouble maker knowing that that a law enforcement personnel is at hand.
ReplyDeleteCarlos, what do you mean by implementing metal detectors in higher learninig institutions would not grant you and others the option to carry around things that can be used to defend yourself?
ReplyDeleteSchool is a learning environment, you shouldn't be carrying any type of weapon or instrument in your possession that can be used to do harm to others, whether intentionally or unintentionally.Carrying any time of instrument that can be used to cause harm to others is illigal and unacceptable. God forbids your belongings falls into the wrong hands.
Rudy, I have to diagree with you on that, just because you're in the surroundings of law enforcemnt officers doesn't mean you're safe or make you any safer.These crazy jerks have no regards, so they can care less about a damn law enforcement officer.Excuse my french, but when an asshole has reached his crisis point, they really dont give a damn who you are and what you are, who's there and who's not there.
ReplyDeleteRudy, I apologize, I meant to write "disagree"
ReplyDeleteI would not want teachers to carry guns on college campuses.First, Guns on public places should be handled by train professionals. Second, I afraid the gun might be use for reason not related to school safety. Third, I am also trouble for issues of liability to the school if a teacher uses the in a domestic situation for instace. For those reasons, I don't believe it is a good idea.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of metal detector, but I believe the cost, the resources, tardyness would be far exceeded the benefit of it. I am not trying to put a price on humain life. First, school shooting do not happen often. Second we don't want to treat nimors like common criminals. They are doing it at the our airports already, but we should not do it to minor school children.
Would sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
ReplyDeleteI think proffessor should not carry weapons while on campus. The reason I desagree with proffessors carring weapons is the image the college is going to have, and the atmosphere the classroom will have, if professors are affraid about what might happen then the college has to provide another alternative for safety perhaps college police.
Another question that comes to mind is are the students going to be bale to carry guns with the excuse that the professors are carring one?.. I just think allowing professors and or staff to carry weapons will create a tense atmosphere and a lot of headaches.
Bonnie, I agree with your responses..
ReplyDeleteWould sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
It is dangerous to have professors carry guns on college campuses. Count how many time teachers/profession got in trouble doing some type of violence acts on students... Now, just think if they had possession of guns at the time.
Farah
ReplyDeleteyou are right.Allowing teachers to carry guns would cause more problems then remedies. Dr. kalam it is not unforseeable to have one or a group of motivated students take a gun away from a professor.
The use of metal detectors in colleges can have a negative response from the public but i think that making colleges secure has a bigger impact on our security than the outcries of the public.
ReplyDeleteI think we as a society need to give up a litlle to make sure we are safe
I am not in favor of professors carrying guns for protection or law enforcement. I believe that you need to be properly training and work in an environment where you develop a state of mind and acquire experience in dealing with different crisis scenarios to properly use a firearm. Once you point out a gun, you’d be better ready to fire it and hit your target; otherwise, you run the risk of being shot and end up dead. If you do not carry or try to use a firearm, you probably would have a better chance to stay alive, help others, and let law enforcement deal with the situation. In addition, there is the cost issue. Training program is expensive. Besides, a college campus is a place of adults or young adults. Thus, if professors could carry guns for protection, why not the students?
ReplyDeleteBonnie and Carlos, I agree with both of you...
ReplyDeleteI support the metal detectors, and yes students should be educated about guns. Metal detector device is great piece of equipment for the student, it does help out in some way with decreasing weapons on the school premises. But, once they are broken it can be annoyed and the detection does not work properly.
At the same time school police/security need to step up their game; maybe get more people, more training and stop being comfortable on the job. We here about carjack and other minor theft on the school premises now... If something major happen are we prepared?
Teresa, you said it with this "I believe that you need to be properly training and work in an environment where you develop a state of mind and acquire experience in dealing with different crisises to properly use a firearm." That's exactly what I'm talking about we need training - can't never get enough of training...
ReplyDeleteAlan:
ReplyDeleteGreat point about the freedom to move around the campus. This is always a big issue when considering security measures...but I woul dnot mind carrying a weapon to protect myself and my students.
Dr. K
Farah:
ReplyDeleteGreat point about the weapons....when and how can we put a stop to it when we allow some people to carry them and so on....for example, I might be a prime victim of some unhapppy student because they have a gun.
Dr. K
I do agree with Baena. The fact the teacher carry guns would motivated a student student carry one too. Teacher may get carry away by taking the law into their onw hands just because they are allowed to carry a gun. Guns give people who carry then a lot of power. people who are not property train would often times resort to quickly fix a situation by firng their guns instead of other alternatives. People who are not properly train with guns don't not always walk awy from confrontational situation.
ReplyDeleteYes Alan and Rudy:
ReplyDeleteThe professor is a simple and humble man and a man of little violence. I certainly don't advocate loose controls and yes, I woul ddeter from my ability to teach. It would change the culture of education and the way I teach and the way students view their environment.
Dr. K
Farah:
ReplyDeleteAs we learned, we are entitled by way of the constitution, to do many things. There are always questions as to whether we are too invasive. As you mentioned, "all schools should implement metal detectors, but implementing metal detectors into a school facility, isn't that violating the students privacy?" I think it is an issue revolving around making schools safe. If safety for the school, and it could be construed that detectors would deter people carryiong weapons onto school property, then to me, that seems reasonable. Thats my argument, byt others might argue in different ways.
Dr. K
I don’t think Professors should be able to carry guns because they are human beings. At any given moment they can snap at any moment like their students. Their hierarchy may be higher than their students in the classroom; however, when it comes to the function of our brains we are equal.
ReplyDeleteMetal detectors should be enforced at all schools to keep our prized possessions safe. You are creating a better environment for your children and school staff. The children should be able to focus on school rather then local violence that is taking place in school. There may be a plethora of people with negative feedback but I will do what ever it takes to keep our children safe.
Carrying a weapon to class because you are a police officer seems unreasonable to me. Just as a student carrying a weapon to class because of their role as a PO.
ReplyDeleteThe image of classrooms, students, professors, books, pencils, and those uncomfortable chairs are all part of the image of traditional learning environments. Should we change that?..would it be the same?....would we learn in the same way? so many questions!
Dr. K
I would not want to see professors carrying guns because like some of my fellow students have written...it is not a good policy. There is only so much a person can do with a weapon. No amount of training can fix that. We allow police officers to carry guns because that is the role we as a society have given them. The fact that there has been even the slightest consideration that professors should carry guns signals that what Miami Dade College needs is an official police force or contracting with MDPD for an on duty force specifically for MDC.
ReplyDeleteAs for the metal detectors, I think, they would be a good idea for smaller campuses but as another classmate pointed out the cost of outfitting open campuses like ours would be astronomical.
I agree with Farah 100% because we need to keep our children safe. Regardless how the children may feel or the public without the children we have no future. We spend money on helping other countries instead we should spend money on the schools safety. Their would be an increase in the graduation class we have now if we focused more attention on them.
ReplyDeleteHi Farah:
ReplyDeleteYou're right about the lack of "consideration" on the part of the Ahole that is about to commit murder. A determined killer ratioanlizes his every step in a wierd and deperate way.
Dr. K
One thing that I would like to respond to is the fact, you, Dr. Kalam responded that you would be willing to carry a weapon on campus to protect yourself or your students. We as a group would be ok with you doing so because you were a police officer at one point in your life and have the proper training. If we train professors to carry weapons what level of training would they receive? Maybe concealed weapons permit training. Definitely not the same as police training.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dr. K just because you are a police officer you should not be able to bring a gun to class. You are a student like the rest of your fellow peers which makes you equal to every one else. In the classroom you are here to learn you aren’t on duty so you shouldn’t have a gun on you.
ReplyDeletePrincess...
ReplyDeleteAbout your comment on the metal detectors in our children's schools. I am with you 100%! I don't have children but I will eventually. I want them to feel safe in schools as all children should. They should be able to have a learning environment free from violence creeping in from the streets. But for the most part those schools are small and it can be done. It would be expensive but most definitely worth it.
I think if we look at MDC North Campus we have to understand that a sprawling open campus with multiple entrance and exit routes are virtually impossible to outfit with metal detectors to improve safety.
As for the use of metal detectors, I think that it is a controversial issue. One side can argue that metal detectors are intrusive, ineffective, and unconstitutional and the other side can argue that metal detectors are efficient and make our schools safer. I have mixed feelings about the use of it and my philosophical position would be against it. But, may be in lower education institution, not all, it might be one way of preventing violence because we are dealing with close grounds and it is easier to implement. Nevertheless, I still do not think metal detectors are sufficient and do not eliminate violence in our schools. If we have fundamental reasons to believe that we need to protect people in some specific areas then we also need to implement other types of surveillance such as video cameras, student profiling, internet tracking, and violence-safety programs and counseling to troubled students. Regarding the use of metal detectors in colleges, I think it is not practical to think about blocking access to all buildings. Can you imagine the long lines and how many times a day you’d have to go through this procedure?
ReplyDeleteI am positive that Dr. K has had training in Verbal Judo and is possibly quite an expert in Crisis Hostage Negotiations and surely does not have to carry a gun to class to get his points across- or to teach. The truth is no one knows when someone with homocidal and or suciadal ideation will show up to school and go on a rampage. We will have to resort to an after the fact study to find out what warning signs were missed or ignored or what could have been done to prevent such tragegy...
ReplyDeleteLouis, just because one is properly trained, and is a police officer or a former police officer doesn't mean he/she will nenver commit a crime, do anything that is stupid, unaccapetable, or against the law.
ReplyDeleteThere's no excuse for law enforcement officers to enter a classroom with their weapon, if you're attending class, a class that is not an inservice class.
Leave your damn service revolver in your patrol vehicle locked.First of all, if you're at work, you're at work. You can't be on the job payroll and yet you're sitting in classroom.
Attend school on your own schedule and time.There's no reason for you to be in school with your gun on , if you're not at work or working, nevertheless your off duty gun.
Farah
ReplyDeleteI would feel more confortable with a current police officer sitting in class with a loaded service revolver than I would for teacher.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI was once asked the question, "how could
ReplyDeleteyou prevent a gunman comming into the hosptial and shooting everyone he sees before
you stop him?"
The answer I gave was that I could not prevent a determined gunman from running in, shooting the clerk at the desk, going into the clininc and shooting everyone there before s/he ran out of all but one bullets. The reason I gave was that we are very fortunate that these types of tragedies are disasterous, but rare. That does not offer much solice to the concerned physician, or school adminsitrator, or parent.
Building a plan that includes prevention measures to deal with a tragic scenario like
a "random" shooter may be as simple as making sure every classroom door is locked from the outside during classes. This could be further enhanced by electronics at each classroom door that would detect metal and lock the door automatically when a guman for example, got close. Moving to higher levels of security might include placing CCTV cameras that would signal a guard booth whenever a person entered an area near a classroom and thus, solict an alarm and rapid response. The prevention measure could go on to higher levels that could include metal detectors at the entrance doors, security at the gates and routine lockdown procedures. All of this is highly dependent upon the "culture" that the principle wants to create and how the adminsitrators at colleges feel about the campus in terms of openness and welcoming. Most government colleges have
missions which include open access to their student bodies. As such, they might be less
likely to support hightened security measures. Other private colleges may have a more
conservative approach and thus support the stepped up measures. The resource officer
has his hands full....
Communications systems like those adopted at NSU, UM and other progressive schools are aimed at a rapid a widespread notfication so that students can be alerted to a situation or potential situation and are able to avoid a stiuation (prevention).
Lesly, I understand that, but you also have to understand just because he/she is a police officer doesn't make them any more intelligent than a professor, or any one else. Law enforcement officers sometimes can be irrational, too. Not spaeking of all officers, but you honestly say one will not commit an unacceptable, because he/she is trained, certified and suppose to be a proffessional.
ReplyDeleteNo! We're all humans, and at any given time or moment,one can explode. You don't know what a person is capable of doing or not.
Don't never under estimate a law enforcement officer.
I agree with Farah and Alan when they say that “school is a learning environment … you shouldn’t be carrying any type of weapon … that can be used to do harm to others …” and that “having professors … carrying their gun to class … would make me uneasy”. As an example, there was an incident during an US Airways flight from Denver to Charlotte, NC when a pilot’s gun accidentally discharged inside the cockpit when he was trying to stow the weapon. The bullet punctured the cockpit. Can you imagine a similar accident in a classroom?
ReplyDeleteAccidents can and often do happen with tragic results. That is a real issue when considering measures that involve people with their behavior and weapons with the ability to kill.
ReplyDeleteGreat responses Farah and Teresa
Dr. K
Hi Alan, I totally agree with you the role of the professor is to teach. If we create an environment of professors carrying guns on campus. What will stop the students or any other faculty member from carrying a gun.If we are worried about a gunman coming on campus then, we should advocate for more security on campus to allocate for a safer environment.
ReplyDeleteWith reference to Luis and Fara, they have opposite points of views with respect to professors with the proper training (ideally police training)being able to carry their guns to class. It really doesn't bother me when my classmates come in uniform to class and carry their guns with them. Although, before a professor is allowed to bring his or her gun to class I would be very hesitant to be in favor of this unless the professor is currently a police officer.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Princess that as a country we spend too much money on helping other countries; instead we should fix our own problems first. We need to make sure our kids are fed, educated, and that their health needs are met.
ReplyDeleteWe need to implement after school programs in which are youth has the opportunity to grow and feel accepted. We have to eliminate the need for our kids to feel the need that they have to belong to gangs. All this is only possible if as a country we consider our priorities. We have to approach these priorities and make sure that lobbyism does not direct our countries priorities.
ReplyDeleteHi Farah and Rudyjl, I agree with you guys there are too many enties and exists points on MDC North campus. The open design does not convey a safe environment. I think the college needs more security manpower and camera surveillance in place.
ReplyDeleteProfessor Kalam,
ReplyDeleteIn response to your question, not all professors are as calm and collected as you, or even as young and skillful to be able to carry a gun in school.
I have heard plenty of cases where teachers "lose it" and beat students in their classroom, so anything is possible!
Would sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
ReplyDeleteThis question comes with an answer that is sure to be controversy, because the right to bear arms is the right of all accordingly, but we the people must be mindful as to who is doing the bearing; It would not be appropriate for professors to bear arms on campus, I am quite aware of the sense of security that is being lost at the hands of individuals that come to school/universities an open fire on staff, and others but that’s no reason to go to the extreme with permitting staff to bear arms on campus, the liability is too costly and I’m sure the campus administrators don’t want to be held accountable for staff actions or reactions. However, the twist to this would be that if are allowed to bear arm that staff would be required to attend the safety courses and go through the training that support firearms; the do’s and don’ts. Not all are able to bear arms; also the professors as well as the college campus must be ready to accept the responsibility and the liability in the event that an incident should occur during the time that the professor(s) are on duty while on the school campus with their personal weapon. If the campus are willing to implement some form of policy whereas liability is theirs then the allowing of professors to bear arm is would be durable. Accountability must fall on the one responsible for their actions for one to react.
Lets not forget that police officers although not in uniform are ALWAYS on duty and need to serve and protect at all times. I feel a lot more comfortable with a police officer that has to qualify constantly on using a weapon, sitting next to me in class than a professor carrying a gun!
ReplyDeleteMetal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? Why? Why Not?
ReplyDeleteYes, absolutely the sense of security is paramount and everyone needs to feel that when they enter the school grounds they are secure, although nothing is full proof. With the changing climate of school security, it is a good strategy that makes us all feel that are safe in the school environment. I am for having the detectors on the premises; it would also alleviate the school from mitigating in allowing professor to bear arm on campus and being liable. Metal detectors are use as a deterrent, but if one wanted to bear arms or carry a firearm on campus it would still be possible with or without it. These metal detectors also provide the conditions where students can learn and teachers can teach in a warm and welcoming environment free of intimidation, violence and fear.
I have taken classes with armed professors previously, and I really do not have a problem with them. Of course, they were law enforcement officers who are exempt of the weapon restrictions in schools. Right now many classmates feel uncomfortable with armed professors. But God forbid one day a mentally disturbed person walks in class and starts shooting everybody. That day you are going to be saying to yourself while praying to God that everybody in this room, including the janitor, should be allowed to carry a firearm in campus. Not even I agree for professors being able to carry a firearm in campus, I am also in favor for student to able to carry one too. Specially on institutions that don't have a metal detector like MDC.
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with professors carrying a gun- unless they are a police officer. When many people purchase guns they do it for their safety and others to commit criminal acts. Gun safety is very important and I do not think it would be feasible for professors to carry them. I understand they might be a great shot, but if you do not undergo particular training you could be disarmed very easily. It is important for those that purchase guns know how to shoot and how to defend from an attack.
ReplyDeleteI am in support of metal detectors, but with that comes the necessity to have extra security on campus in the event that someone tries to enter with a gun of anything that could cause damage. Metal detectors are used as a deterrent. I beleive that if all schools had them the probability of crime and carrying illegal things onto campus would decrease.
ReplyDeleteFarah, lets use myself and the other officers in the class as an example. Everyone knows that we are officers and are duty is to serve and protect- not only the 8 hour shift we work, but yet ALL the time. Lets say a armed robbery occurs where a victim was shot on campus or near the campus and the subject runs into the office where our class is at, EVERYONE of our classmates would be looking at us to do something (at least I would, if I wasn't an officer). If our guns would be in the car like you think they should be, we wouldn't be much help would we?
ReplyDeleteWe let fear sometimes cause us take drastic measure and spent money we don't even have.While is good to think ahead,we have to be cautious in what we to secure our school and hospital. Benjamin Franklyn has once said," that we should not secrificece our freedom to for to provide temporay safety, those who do that deserve not liberty or safety". Someone said it already, We should not college student the sameway we do it for high by invading their pravacy in searching their belongings. We connot prevent someone from walking into hospital and start shooting, but we can respond quickly if we are prepare.
ReplyDeleteRudy, i completely agree with your comment that metal detectors give a false sense of security- but what would someone more likely do, walk into a school that has no metal detector with a gun or into a school that has increased security and metal detectors are in place? Unfortunately there is not enough money for that to work
ReplyDeleteWould sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
ReplyDeleteI do not think all professors should carry a gun. Instead I think perhaps maybe there should be one sworn individual maybe a professor with a gun in each building on campus. I do not think all professors can just be so easily trusted with a gun especially when dealing with so many young people. Also teaching can be very stressful depending on the students in their clas.
Lesly, are you saying that you are opposed to your bags being checked before entering a school? It sad, but the reality of it is that many people are carrying things onto school campuses that should not be; whether it is knives, guns or drugs- it doesn't need to be there
ReplyDeleteFarah, guns don't "accidently" go off. You have to apply pressure to the trigger for that to happen. You said that #3 (a car could be stolen would be the most likely scenario)- you still want me to leave my gun in my car (personal/unmarked) so someone can steal my car and then go commit a violent crime- and possible shooting someone with my gun?
ReplyDeleteRachel
ReplyDeleteI agree only teachers that are police officers should carry a gun. I believe that just because you are a professor it does not gives you any qualification to carry a weapon. I also believe there is many teachers that would not agree to have to carry a weapon becuase some of them may be opposed to it as well.
Farah,
ReplyDeleteHave police officer leave their firearms inside their police vehicle? Great idea, especially for a burglar so he can break in the police vehicle and put one more firearm in the street. Many police department policies require police officers to be armed at all times (except for several restrictions) and to take police action if a crime occurs. The whole reason for this is because the public expects to be protected by the police at all times. Yes indeed police officers can commit crimes just like anybody else. But for some reason the majority school shootings were committed by students. I am not aware of any school shooting that a police officer was the perpetrator...it is probably because the extensive background and psych test that they go through before getting hire, just like MDC student application process...yeah right!
AMEN FLAVIO!!! you took the words right out of my mouth!!! wow
ReplyDeleteI got your back Rachel!!!
ReplyDeleteWOW....as usual, those who participated really came through and did such a great job. I am so proud to be with you all in this class,
ReplyDeleteTake care
Dr. Kalam
I support metal detectors in campus. However, metal detectors are not 100% secure. When a perpetrator wants to commit a crime he will figure the way to beat the system. Perfect examples, Court Houses have metal detectors and police officers were restricted to carry their firearms. When several shootings happened in different court houses they allowed police officers to carry their firearms.
ReplyDeleteTo all of you against the metal detectors because of violations of privacy, constitutional rights, and the availability of moving freely, I feel MORE freedom and at peace when I am in a location that checks bags, cars, people, maybe since I don't have anything to hide I don't worry about being checked! Maybe it's because I have been exposed to the knowledge that there are plenty of people in our city that are waiting for the right moment to take as many of us out as possible. I hate waiting in line for practically anything except safety.
ReplyDeleteRachel an Flavio, I do not have a problem with police officers carrying their guns but I am not in favor of other people who are not law enforcement officers and do not have the same training and experience as you do, to be carrying guns for the purpose of protecting us. That is why I do not agree with Rachel when she says that ‘guns don’t “accidentally” go off. You have to apply pressure to the trigger for that to happen”. It happens that sometimes pressure is applied to triggers accidentally.
ReplyDeleteEarlier, I gave an example of accident during a US Airways flight last year that illustrates that this can happen. “CHICAGO (Reuters) - Mon Mar 24, 2008- “US Airways pilot’s gun accidentally goes off on plane”. The gun carried by a US Airways pilot accidentally went off on a flight from Denver to Charlotte on Saturday, causing the plane to be pulled from service, the airline said on Monday. No one was injured by the shot, and the aircraft landed safely in Charlotte. Flight 1536 had 124 passengers, two pilots and three flight attendants aboard, US Airways said. The pilot was a Federal Flight Deck Officer, permissioned by the U.S. Transportation Security Administration to carry a firearm.”
MSNBC explained further stating that, “US Airways pilot whose gun fired inside a cockpit said he was trying to stow the weapon as the crew got ready to land, according to a police report released Wednesday.” “Photos obtained by The Associated Press show a small exit hole on the plane's exterior below the cockpit window.”
1. Would sanction the use of guns by professors on college campuses? Why, Why Not?
ReplyDeleteI don't support the idea of professors carrying guns on college campuses, for the simple fact some people are crazy out there. Like everyone else, professors are capable of losing their temper and their cool. They are also capable of commiting vicious and violent activities. A gun is just a danger to the learning enviornment.
2. Metal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? why? why Not?
I do think metal detectors should be placed in all schools. Especially in high school because teenagers are the ones to be most dangerous these days. We need to protect our children from the violence presented in their schools. Also as Princess said we need to protect or prized possesions. Our economy is just emtionally unstable.
Teresa, I am going to give you a 101 training in firearms:
ReplyDelete1. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you want to shoot something.
2. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you want to shoot something.
3. Always follow rules 1 & 2
Should professors carrying guns on college campuses? First of all, i don't think it a good idea to add another responsibility on their shoulder they had already have to much dealy with all of us. Secondly, we won't feel safe enough in the classeroom and what kind of traning will be required for those professors, what type of guns will be required for them to use. A professor with a police officer are different therefore, it will be safer taking a class with a police officer which is also a professor than somebody who is just a professor.
ReplyDeleteTeresa, I'm perfectly agree with you i don't have problem with police officer carrying their guns on the college campuses or in the classroom, but why should a armed security officer do when it finish woking lock his/her gun in the car or can they carry their guns with them in the classroom, by the way they not receive the same traning as a police officer.
ReplyDeleteFlavio, I think you misunderstood me but thanks for the 101 class. I would feel safer if that US Airways pilot that was trained by that certification program created after the Sept 11 and who was certified to carry that weapon on board has taken your class too. It seems to me that he does not know the basics since the gun fired when he was trying to stow it.
ReplyDeleteFlavio:
ReplyDeleteI am glad you are here. You make good sense and can lend so much to this class.
Keep doing what you do,
Dr. K
Teresa:
ReplyDeleteEven the best trained people make mistakes. That is the human side. That does not dismiss the issues surrounding how we view measures. You are very much on track and lend much to this discussion,
thank you
Dr. K
I don't have any problem with metal detectors using in the high school or in the government site,but using it in a college campuses will not be a good idea it probably reduce gun violence at the same time it will be a nightmare for us. It is ok to used them in high facility, because we are dealing with children but college is another story we are dealing we adult. For example, a place like MDC will take alot of money to place metal detectors on it, plus hire people to be use them properly, train them and have another groupe of people to fix them when they are broking. Another thing it will take us more time to go to ours classroom than it used to be.
ReplyDeleteI'm agree with you Mike, eventhough i'm not for the metal detectors but that doesn't mean we have something to hide by the way who will not like to be in a safe place i think much of us will like that. I won't be happy to head a gun shot while i'm in class at work or in a church it's not a good feeling, my question is: Now a days "are we realy safe in this world"?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with idea or proposal to have college professors carry firearms while on any college campus. Who’s to say that a college professor can’t have a bad day or life situation? I feel that having firearms on college campuses is a dangerous idea. Indeed we do live in a dangerous society; however, having guns on college campuses can’t change an individual’s state of mind to kill.
ReplyDeleteI do not support the idea of having metal detectors on college campuses. I feel that it is a form of violation to its student’s privacy. Most college students are adults and we carry many different types of metal objects; it would be very unfair for any student to display their metal object each time he or she had to pass through a metal detective device.
Racheal, I do agree that metal detectors are used as a deterrent; however, i disagree that they will help reduce crime. Everyone that works in an educational institution is not of sound mind. Who's to say that a person can't pay an employee to get their illegal substance or object on the campus grounds.
ReplyDeleteMike Fernandez, I completely agree with you. I do feel more comfortable with a more trained and experienced officer carrying a firearm in the classroom. A professor might have less training and experience using a firearm.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Alan and Mike that it’s not safe or appealing to know your professor is carrying a loaded firearm while he’s in a classroom teaching; the sole purpose of being in school is to learn. The ambiance in the classroom would be fearful and intimidating to some of the student population. One can only imagine what the media would say if the possibility of someone overpowering a professor and utilizing that firearm against oneself or the school population. Safety is always a serious issue that deserves consideration.
ReplyDeleteFlavio, I must say that you are correct nothing is 100%, and when someone wants to commit a criminal act they get very creative in how to carryout that act, so when administrators implemented to have metal detectors is the court house, it is use as a deterrent; allowing the people to feel a sense of security. The fact is people with criminal intention still find a way to commit these acts with or without a metal detector, supporting the idea of it on campus is a great idea of effect.
ReplyDelete1. The idea of arming professors with guns is a bad one. To start off not all professors will not agree with signing up for more training. I would think they are more interested in improving the scholarship aspects of their school. It will also give the image that the campus is unsafe if professors are packing. Also the fact that it is such are rare event makes the thought of guns on campuses a safety issue.
ReplyDeleteI would sanction the use of guns by professors to on campus. My reasons for doing so are quite simple they are a physical and sociology deterrent. This could prevent future school shootings involving people entering a class room and shooting the classroom and potentially other places.
ReplyDeleteNo I would not support metal detectors at all schools. The element that you find in high schools is not found in colleges. People that go to college actually want to learn. It would be impractical for a college or university to put metal detectors everywhere. They are only needed in high schools that have a problem with weapons.
ReplyDeleteLaw enforcement officers, leave their weapons in the trunk of their vehichles all the time.
ReplyDeleteWhere are the rifels and the AK- 45's hideen?...in the trunk of the patrol vehicle.. you dont go walking around carrying a rifle.
In response to mike
ReplyDeleteI do not agree that a series of events would lead to the gun being discharged just because it is readily available. A teacher could have the firearm stored in the desk locked away. Also if the gun is stored in their desk locked there should not be much of an opportunity for the gun to be taken from a teacher. If a teacher is so upset that he needs to draw a gun on a student, etc maybe they should not be taking the courses to carry a firearm into the classroom.
Marques,
ReplyDeleteThink about the amount of training and insurance that will be needed. That student showed signs of abnormal behavior. It could have been prevented without a professor with a gun on campus. The professor will be more worried about shooting their guns that teaching class. The guns should be for professionaly trained officers.
In response to aldo
ReplyDeleteThere have been events in college history recently that show that all students do not come to learn. Some students become so angered, depressed and stressed that they feel the only way to relieve themselves of these symptoms is to inflict pain on others. I believe metal detectors are a good idea to help to keep such drastic events such as shooting down.
Everyone,
ReplyDeleteThe fact that accidents happen in wepons training around trained professionals is reason enough not to arm professors. Anybody remember the cop that shot himself while giving a training session? Check U-Tube.
Metal detectors are being used at many facilities to reduce the possibility of weapons entering premises. Would you support metal detectors at all schools? why? why Not?
ReplyDeleteI think metal detectors would not be a bad investment at all. I feel that if someone really wanted to bring a weapon or harm those inside they would find a way. Although the metal detectors would act as a deterrent and make potential offenders really think about the trouble it would be to get their weapon into the school. In the long run I think it would be very effective in reducing the amount of weapons brought into schools. Ultimately it will not completely eliminate but it will highly reduce.
Windsor
ReplyDeleteI agree that it does make a difference where the metal detectors are placed and completely agree with your opinion about the college campuses. Also school violence is much higher in middle and high school. College violence is a lot more rare simply due to the fact that college aged students are much more mature.