Saturday, March 14, 2009

Week 2 Discussion

Hello class:

Thank you for a great class today.

Please comment on the following and begin our discussion for week 2:

"When we are part of the group, we should do all we can to fit in. It is ok to give up our values temporarily in order to meet the needs of the group since the goal of the group is the most important thing".

"If our group is strong enough and seems likely to win, I should do all I can to support it, regardless of my own personal opinion".

75 comments:

  1. Fitting in can be difficult at times especially when you are trying to integrate a tight knit group with a cliquish mentality. Issues and conflicts often arise when your culture is different from the group you are trying to integrate. You want to assert your personality and your views without compromise. You want to gain acceptance and by the same token earn the respect of your colleagues. You should speak up if you feel that the group’s objective violates certain rules. It gives us great pleasure to be part of a successful enterprise and we take pride in associating ourselves with the group that has accomplished a great feat no matter how minimal our role was. However no one will readily take the blame when something goes wrong. Finger pointing and the blaming game are prevalent when things don’t go according to plan. We pride ourselves in making excuses and blaming the other party

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  2. When you give up your values, you are subjecting yourself to personal liability. In all major organization or corporation, when something goes wrong, they don‘t look for the guilty group. They want to know who is the person responsible for the mess. An entire group will never stand in unison to admit culpability. They want to crucify the individual who brought failure and shame to the entire group. Then you find yourself on that proverbial limb totally vulnerable.

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  3. Being and trying to fit into a group is important, because it is good feel associated to other individuals that are part of something. But when comes to giving up your values to meet the needs of a group, I feel that we realing don't, because we have look at how we became part of said group: was it by force, or by free will. Our values is what makes some groups work or not work, even if don't express them. Having different values on things can distroy how the group works, because you will have always someone or something that will not let you go forward. In the real world we face these same kind of choices or forced associations; what we really need to think about is when we see someone is not really into being part of the group are we willing to do without that person? Sometimes even seeing that group is going to win does not motivate people, and makes it their goal to destroy the goals to win. Sometimes there is not power in number, but in how people want to work together.

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  4. Hi Rudy:

    I don't agree, people really don't give up their values. The main reason that in organization/corporation people are eliminated is because they don't fit in. You really can't not hide your true self, an action, or even the way you express yourself always leads people to your true opinions. I feel that the best thing is be wanted for what you really all about, than for what they thought you was about, like that you are not a liability to yourself or others.

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  5. As a member of a group, I don't think its appropriate for one to do whatever he/she can to fit in, and its definetely not ok to temporarily give up your values in order to meet the needs of the group.
    I understand the importance of a good grade, but the goal of the group is for every member to come together and accomplish the task in a positive manner, to contribute, to give your input, assist, facilitate, encourage, stimulate and so forth.
    As a group, you're always going to have some differences, but the goal is to overcome those obstacles, which doesn't mean putting your values aside .
    Speaking for myself, I will not at all try to fit into any group, or temporarily give up my values to accommodate the needs of a group, because my values are my beliefs and activities which I'm naturally drawn to.
    My values are who I am, so to give up my values temporarily, would be and is loosing my sense of identity.
    However, I will support my group if it is goal oriented, and the group members have complimentary skills,committed to a common purpose and share common working approach.Afterall our priority is to accomplish the task as a group because we can not do it alone, each as an individual

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  6. Rudy,
    You must remember when working in a group, whatever and when ever something goes wrong, the group members are accountable as a whole, because they are a group, there shouldn't be any finger pointing.

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  7. Hi Carlos- for a while I thought I logged on on the wrong link... Often people say- I have to work with you- I dont have to like you. Of course things run a lot smoother when people within a group are cordial; tasks are completed a lot faster. Of course if you are not performing according to the standards of the group, you may face exclusion which may translate in termination. People have left jobs/organizations because they could not fit in. Are we associating likability with the likelihood of success?

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  8. Hi Farah:

    I agree with you, people really don't give up their values, and it really doesn't matter for what it is.

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  9. Farah it is a noble concept to admit one's wrong. However within the group we always look for the "one" who messed up and brought shame to entire group and sometimes we may seek to exclude this person from the group.

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  11. I would try my best to take part and fit in for my group, however, when it comes to my values I disagree. Why should I have to put my values aside? If everyone had the same personalities then they would stick inside their box instead of outside the box. To me it would be a better group if everyone has different qualities to bring to the group. Personally I would not take part in a group where I would have to put my values aside. My values make a reflection upon the beautiful black woman that I am. If it were free will I would move to another group if it were by force I still would remain me.

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  12. Hi Rudy:

    I feel that people choose to make things work, if they want to associate on how they like someone it does become the link that brings some groups together, but when you dont have nothing incommon with no one in group, do you think that groups can work? Even though we have great group exercises in class, we all are associated to one another by the field that we studying, and all the courses we have taken together. I know that when in class group projects there is always someone that doesn't do their part, because their are not interested and don't care, I seen it happen in other courses I had, put not in our classes. I know that courses we are trying are to help us learn how to work in group, and how to have an open mind about its.

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  13. Hello All:

    Great comments and Values are something important. There is no right answer since your values belong to you. In a cirsis, people may tend to develop a group norm to get the job done more effectively. When soldiers fight in wars, they are devoted to the goals of the group. My research on the subject indicates, that cohesive teams have members who are attracted to the team, united in their efforts and perform at higher levels (Shaw, 1991). Cohesive team members focus on the pursuit of their combined goals and remain united in their efforts. In highly cohesive groups, productivity tends to be better and members tend to participate readily, defend the group norms, express hostility, feel a sense of security, influence others and be influenced, and stay with the group” ( p. 122). Literature about cohesion explores the individual team member and whether that person is a willing participant with positive views. A positive predisposition to work on teams can be an indicator of team cohesion and performance.

    Dr. Kalam

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  14. A comedian once said: "I would not be part of any group that would not want me as member". I would seek an alternate group if I had to compromise my values...

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  15. Hi Princess:

    I agree with you, one does not change values for a group, and one chooses to work with others. It is great when groups have different qualities, and helps bring different view points to things. When things are forced on people, it just makes them more likely to rebel

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  16. Hi Rudy:

    I feel that comedian view is:

    That he knows his values are not going to change for any group, and will seek to be part of group where he will not have to change.

    So like minds work better together; right.

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  17. What we all need to remember is that when worrking with others you always have the chance to make it work or just let it fall to pieces. Life is about said chooses. People have to want to make it work for things to proceed to next level and have success.

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  18. In any group situation or crisis situation regardless if you disagree you are still going to do what’s best for the group. As Dr.K stated earlier soldiers go out and they may not feel what they are doing is right, however, they complete the task whether they like it or not it’s their duty. To me it has to do with the situation you are placed in at that given time.

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  19. It is of human nature to follow their personal opinions and value their own beliefs. In teamwork, this kind of attitude may develop into conflicting directions. Team members need to build trust, openness, and respect with each other to find common ground, to become tolerant of other members' values, and to learn from and value their teammates differing paradigms. I do not believe that this can happen just by putting people together. People are not willing to give up their values if they cannot see the big picture. Thus, in my opinion, a team needs a leader who is able to evaluate each member, have members assigned to the right tasks by utilizing their talents in order to maximize their potentials. A leader should lead members to embrace a vision, keep them focused on the goal, energize their participation, and make them confident that they are going to win. If the leader can create this kind of environment, members most likely will be willing to revise and/or rethink their values to meet the team’s needs.


    However, if the leader or group members’ values are unethical according to your moral values and principles then you need to find a way to step out from that group and not simply give up your values even temporarily.

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  20. Hi Carlos

    I agree with you, when in a group you should work together and give it your all. All the pieces will come together in the group.

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  21. Hi Princess:

    I agree with you, it does come down to the situation you are placed in at any given time.

    Another thing to remember is that soldiers in the armed force are in said group because they did want to sign up for it, and they are interested completing their duty, right or wrong does not come to ther mind at that point when it is your duty.

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  22. Hello All:

    Leadership behavior affects the team process in many ways. Leadership brings the vision to life, makes it real for the followers (team members) and brings their combined efforts to fruition by achieving some goal.

    leaders must recognize how groups behave and look for cohesion (even if that means removing a team member).

    I agree that one should always place values in the forefront of our behavior. And, if they are compromised, we must make a value judgement about whether or not to contiue (easier said than done).

    Dr. K

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  23. I feel that people want to work with people that want to work with them. If you have an open mind to things it does make it easier to be in an group and wotk with others. If we as adults and college students have not learned to keep an open mind at this stage we have to say that we have not learned anything through our course. We don't have to change our values or opinions on things, but we do have to be able to keep an open mind to be able to listen to others.

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  24. Reading all the responses, they're great! Yes, Being and fitting in a group is okay, but we should never give up our values...The human mind is something else if you do it once you will want to do it again - before you know it your values, belief, etc...is our the door. You can still meet the group needs by just being avoiding. SMILE!

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  25. If our group is strong enough and seems likely to win, I should do all I can to support it, regardless of my own personal opinion".

    When a member supports a group regardless, this can create a problem of too much cohesion. Although cohesiveness is generally desirable for a group, it is dangerous when there is too much. One problem is that it can lead to group thinking, which can destroy effective decision making. I think a member should have commitment to the task rather than just being committed to the group. A person should be able to express their differing of opinion without pressure from the group.

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  26. I will do all I can whether my team is strong or not...Many times a group become stronger at the end because everyone wants to win. I never voice my personal opinion unless it the last result and the group is completely lost.

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  27. Hi Lisa:

    I agree with you, be yourself, life will be such a happier place.

    "What you see is what you get, nothing not more and nothing less"

    I love that saying, and it fits perfect with our blog today.

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  28. Hi Lisa:

    I agree with you, you have to do want is needed even if the group is strong or not. One's participation in the work that is needed is what brings sometimes people to together, because they start to find things that they can associate with.

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  29. I think when one is in a group, especially if given the opportunity to choose your group members, the group should consist of members who share identity(educational background, career, religion, values,and morals just to name a few, they tend to work better and be more productive, less conflict.
    It's best to choose your group with care and not just team up with those sitting next to you, because its more convenient for you.It must involve those that you know are hardwork, motivated, respectful,positive, and industriuos.
    You dont have to like someone to work with them, if not given the oppotunity to choose your members, and you find yourself in such situation....the best way to get the most out of it , is to approach it positively.
    We dont have to like each other, but we do have to work together, respect each other, come togher and conmplete the mission. For the time we're working together, we are a team, we're a family,and support each other.

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  30. I apologize for my spelling, I did't proofread.
    I meant together:complete:we should support each other.

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  31. Dr. Kalam, I agree with you every group should have a strong/good leader, it can makes a world of difference. If the leader is focus and have enthusistic about a project - that attitude will inspire his/her group members to give their best and all. That's the feeling I've had for the last two (2) classes this group "we all work well together" and I pray we continue to carry this spirit/attitude throughout lives (respect, understanding/open mind and willingness).

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  32. "When we are part of the group, we should do all we can to fit in. It is ok to give up our values temporarily in order to meet the needs of the group since the goal of the group is the most important thing".

    I believe that this is true and necessary to a certain extent. When a person is part of a group they often tend to make sacrifices such as temporarily giving up certain values for the benefit of the team. In cases where a person is forced to give up values for the best interests of the group I do not always believe that they would give up their whole belief system. I believe that people most often sacrifice those values that are not compatible with the groups values. I think that for most people there are still some values that they can't give up for the group. The problem for me would come when those unreconciled values and the group values clash.



    "If our group is strong enough and seems likely to win, I should do all I can to support it, regardless of my own personal opinion".

    I think that anyone who is in a group generally tries to contribute whatever they can to ensure the success of the team. Part of that drive for the group to succeed comes from the group's ability to provide a niche for that person. If that niche is not their then that drive diminishes or becomes non-exisistant. Effective groups value the opinions of all members even if those opinions do not always align with the group's objectives or goals. I think that when a member of the group feels that they or their opinions are not being heard or considered fairly then, in most cases, the group dynamic begins to diminish and become less successful.

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  33. If we are referring when the team is working to resolve a crisis, absolutely, our values should be place aside in order to resolve the conflict. Reiterating that wining means that the community is going to benefits as a whole. However, if wining means that my group is going to control the situation no matter that other groups are more capable/qualify than us and personal satisfaction is the primary goal, at this point, our personal values must kick in a let the other group be in charge in order to benefit our community.
    Part our team work means that you must sacrifice certain things in order to win as a team regardless of personal opinion.

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  34. Hello All:

    Strong leaders can influence the group, and that can be bad. It may be that most of the group may "accomodate" and thus, let others take them in directions contrary to their values. How do we deal with the strong leader types?

    Dr. K

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  35. It is difficult to compare civilian team work with military personnel. Although the concept of reaching a goal is common with the two groups in a crisis situation, military personnel have the upper hand because you are trained to follow orders and disobeying an order can be a situation of life or death in combat. I believe that conflict within a military group is less likely to happen than a civilian group.

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  36. I do believe that when a group has a task at hand (a goal) as part of it I am willing to modify and adapt my values in order to mee the needs of the group.

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  37. It is hard to deal with strong leaders especially when the leader outranks you. If I am involved in a group were a leader posses values opposite of mine and his/her management will not benefit the primary goal of the operation, I will advise the leader of our difference and try to come to a resolution. If the leader is a micro manager and does not bend for nothing, I will retrieve from the group.

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  38. Carlos,

    I agree with you that soldiers are usually in that group because they signed up for it. That is probably why we, the U.S., has one of if not the strongest military in the world.

    However, I have to disagree with you that their sense of right and wrong is lost to duty. There are many cases where soldiers do horrible things while serving their country. I do think that for most soldiers if they believe that their mission is in direct violation of a value the soldier truly believes, that soldier will stand up for those values that they feel truly embody what the soldier believes are just.

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  39. I agree with Rudy that as an individual you should never violate rules or allow others that are in your group to violate rules.

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  40. To address your last comment Prof. K. I think that you are correct that strong leader types can often direct a group or individual members of a group to "accomodate" to the leader's values more than those originally set for the group.

    I believe that the best and most effective way to curb this is for those in the group who do not agree to speak their minds and share their beliefs. Those who do and stand by their opinions can often get the group back in line. It is when none of the group members stand their ground that a leader can force a group into a bad situation. These situations, unfortunately, are the ones where people lose lives or other severe and unnecessary consequences take place.

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  41. I agree with Princess, we should never put our values aside when being part of a group.
    If it comes to a point in which the group thinks totally the opposite with respect to values, then as individuals we have the option if necessary, to step away from the group.

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  42. With respect to Flavio's comment when an individual outranks you and he or she has a different point of view or even different values, this is a difficult situation because you can express your point of view, but ultimately you have to obey the chain of command.

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  43. With respect to Dr. Kalam's comment on how to deal with strong leaders, I believe that it takes strong individuals to stand up to them so that they can express their points of views.

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  44. When individuals in a group do not speak up and consequently allow the leader to control the group, then it is the groups fault that allowed the leader to do so.

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  45. This is a similar situation to when bullies get away with the bullying. If the individuals being bullied and the individuals observing the bullying do not step in and stop this, then the bully will continue to bully.

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  46. As a follow up to Flavio's post about how he would deal with a strong leader whom he disagrees with is an ideal example of how strong leaders should be approached by the members of the group who disagree and I believe that his reaction to a leader who will not collaborate or compromise is exactly what would show other members of the group with similar values that they should also not take part.

    There maybe consequences for those types of decisions but I think that most people would rather deal with the consequences of following their values and beliefs rather than dealing with the consequences of doing something that they do not believe in.

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  47. If you are a group member you must be able to consider all relevant information in an open-minded and unbiased way. Once you explore your own values in an honest and trustful manner, and if you are unwilling to merge your personal agenda with those of the group or cannot in good conscience support the group; than you should leave the group rather than go against any of your personal values. We live in a pluralistic society; therefore differing of values will exist within and between the group members, however, the most important thing is to understand and accomplish the task.

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  48. Hello Luis:

    You said "There maybe consequences for those types of decisions but I think that most people would rather deal with the consequences of following their values and beliefs rather than dealing with the consequences of doing something that they do not believe in".

    while I would like to believe that, it really depends on the circumstances and consequences for the individual. In a Jury, a murderer may get off because of a need to go along with the group...eventhough it was not the right thing. OJ may be a good example.

    Dr. K

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  49. To Dr. K,
    I do not think that it is necessarily bad to have a strong leader. A leader most often will influence members of the group. The problem is when most of the members of the group are the accommodating and avoiding type and the leader is taking advantage of that situation by leading the group into the wrong direction. In this scenario, I agree with Flavio and Luis. The option is to present your position to the leader and try to make him/her to compromise. If that were not possible at all, then I would retrieve from the group as well. Yet, there is also another possibility that is to bring your concerns to a higher authority. This attitude might jeopardizes your career within the corporation but at least you stood by your principles.

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  50. I would rather the group acept me for who I am in lieu of tring to fit in by giving up my value. I would colloborate or comprise to some extent reach our objectives. It depends on past experience and backgroung of people that formed group.If I strongly believe that I have more experience within the topic at hand, I would do my best to hold my ground until the group see things my way.I would give in with prejudice, but not until I made clear my personal opinion about the subject.

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  51. I agree with Rudy. People are too naive sometimes. We have to voice our opinions, eventhough it may not be popular. It doesn't matter how hard we try; we could never please everyone. Giving in without a fight is not an option.

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  52. Yes Teresa:

    Standing by principles is right.

    In practical terms, most good organizations encourage ethical behavior, and teamwork,

    Dr. K

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  53. DR Kalam

    There are people that are naturaly influencial. President Obama has been label like that. I dont believe it is team work when someone whitin a group dont take other people's opinion at face falue. Groupwork can easily become a n one man show if people do not hold firm.

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  54. Being part of a group sometime is a great challenge specially if we never meet those people before in our life. I think the reason why in class students always sit next to a person they know is because they know thar person to a previous class. What i want to say it is not easy to fit in group, sometime people feel it's ok to be part of this group, there are others who make it seems like they are in but they are not really in. I think we should try to make our best to understand what is the goal of the group, what is our position , and what we are in this group for. It's depend on the situation, we don't have to give up our values away like this, if we are trying to solve a conflict or something that will affect the group i will say yes we have to give it up another to save the group or to save lives.I think when we fit in a group it is easier to performe better with the other members of the group.

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  55. The question is subjective because it does not clarify what kind of group "we" are or what our goal is. When you say the group is likely to win, leads me to think competition. I would not give in to my values and cheat in order to win. I am able to compromise in decision making as long as it is within legal/moral parameters.

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  56. Everybody like to win, it doesn't mather what organization we are belong to ,private or public organization all of us like to win.I can take our class for an example,when we are doing the group about the man who killed the childen in the school group A want to take the lead over group B, and B want to take the lead eventhough they don't really know the department. Being in a strong group give you more interest to fit in because you don't want to left behind, you want to be part of the big success regardless of your personal opinion. sometime we have conflict in a group because some people say that you not contribute enough in the group or you not give the best of yourself(100%). some like to be part of the success but the want to support it all the way.

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  57. I'm agree with you Lesly, they have to acept you for who you are, but you have to conforme with the rulesand regulation of the group eventhough to think you are a head of those people.

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  58. Flavio, I couldn't agree with you more when it comes to being part of a group where there are people that out rank you... The worst part is that most of the time you have to adapt to what your "higher ups" want and forget about any ideas or suggestions you might have to get a situation resolved.

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  59. Strong leaders like pastors for example, can influence a group and lead them to a bad direction especially when they are working for the own interest.

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  60. I think it is important to do all you can in a group to make things work- but it is a very delicate subject when it involves changing your values. Groups, as we saw yesterday in class aer very diverse and requires everyone to try to reach a common goal which is not easy. As long as the solution to the problem is resolved, in the right legal way it is okay.

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  61. I believe that our values are important no matter the circumstances. Depending on the situation if it is just a common group activity then your own personal values should not put aside for the sake of the group having a strong chance to succeed. One’s values are what make them a part of their culture. However, if it is something critical like a crisis or a major conflict occurring then I would seriously considering keeping my values at bay especially if it is a life or death situation.

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  62. Carlos i agree with you completly. UNfortunately sometimes it is difficult to achieve a common goal, beacuse groups are so diverse. When dealing with groups, everyones' values are different and everyone has something special to bring to a group.

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  63. Windsor, when you mentioned about strong leaders, it is sad but true that in many situation that it is those people (famous/important people) that can influence a group negatively- and those on the outside see those important people as they know what they are doing and therefore believe that their values are always good ones- which is not always the case.

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  64. I'm in complete agreement with rudy on this matter because its our norms and values that make us who we are. We never like to be wrong and its often hard to admit that we are in teh wrong.

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  65. Eveyone wants to be apart of a group at some time in their lives. For most of us we are apart of a group for our whole lives. As far as putting my values aside to fit in, I wouldn't do it. If everyone were the same or attempting to be the same the world would be black and white, with no access color. You can't just drop everything you believe in to be apart of a group that most likely you are going to stray away from once you get older. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. So be different and embrace your individuality because us being individuals makes us create our own groups. Where we don't have to change our morals, values, or beliefs.

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  66. Rachel I beleive it can be counter productive to just have somebody in your group just because you have to. Having somebody in a group with ou that will not cooperate or bring any valid ideas to the table is nothing more than a Hindrance to the group and its chemistry.

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  67. Marques I agree with that depending on the situation an individual is more or less likely to sacrifice their own beliefs. If the situation is a life or death scenario then the priority of the group is going to be saving lives; each person's ego should be put aside for the greater good of all involved.

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  68. Carlos I agree with you, one of the most important things college should teach us is to have an opened mind and to be able to be critical of others and of oneself. Critical thinking and being able to discuss one's point of view is an important skill that improves as one gets more practice in exercising it. Not only is it important in college, but it is very important in every day situations and at work.

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  69. Being part of a group is one thing, but to part take in a belief that’s not the norm for and individual is another. It is just like team work either you are all in or you're out, and strength lies within the individual himself. I can come together and agree to disagree or vice-versa on ones belief and that does not mean that I have minimized my value.

    Let’s take for an example a Christian that’s curious about the Muslim religion but has his belief and practices in tact, he for investigative purposes only transforms for x-amount of days to see what the religion is all about, it does not mean that this person has compromised his own religion, it means that he wanted to experiment only to gather his own independent opinion of what the other religion was about; even if not in-depth.

    Just to reiterate, being part of a group is fine but this question is like a double edge sword, if the group is one of productivity, then yes why not be all in, and place your beliefs or values aside as long as what we are doing is not of an illegal activity.

    We should value teamwork both at work as well as in school/college; it helps the weak to build strength from others; it gives them that oomph.

    This does not in any compromise who you are as an individual; it’s just team and group work at its best.

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  70. I believe in teamwork. What ever goal the team is working towards I believe you should do everything necessary to accomplish that goal. Working in a team requires you to not take anything personal and you must find a common ground with all team members to get the job done.

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  71. I do agree with Carlos because it is very important to be open minded.There are so many different cultures that I am recently learning about and I find it refreshing to know that in many cases even though people have different backgrounds they can learn things from each other. Being able to work with other helps you to realize similarities which makes working as a team easier.It feels good to know you can work well with others no matter where they are from or what their beliefs are because is shows how great of a person you can be.

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  72. "When we are part of the group, we should do all we can to fit in. It is ok to give up our values temporarily in order to meet the needs of the group since the goal of the group is the most important thing".

    "If our group is strong enough and seems likely to win, I should do all I can to support it, regardless of my own personal opinion".

    I believe that if you just accomadate to your group and temporarily give up your values you are cheating your group. I feel strongly that what your group needs the most out of you is simply you. When group members just agree with whatever their peers say and do not contribute with their true perspective your group is hurting because of it. I believe many times some people out of fear of disagreeing with perhaps their entire group do not give their true opinion. I can only imagine how many times that has occured and the group results could have been so much better.
    there is no requirement to be in any group. In making a group i dont think you must have much in common with your group members or to many differences either. All everyone needs is the desire to prosper in their task.

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  73. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and belief; however, giving up your values for someone else or group is being unfair to yourself. Indeed, while being in a group it is vital for each team member to do their best to accomplish a single goal. While accomplishing a goal everyone may have different beliefs and values but on the other hand remember being in a group is only temporary having your own values will last forever.

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  74. If you don't believe in the values of the group it adds a degree of difficulty in working to accomplishing the groups goals. I believe people gravitate towards groups that hold or in some form represent their values. Your values come first, from that point you are able to expand on what needs to be done. There is also the aspect of respecting others views when working in a group. Which raises the question on whether you value respect?

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